Without the state

Gay marriage - equal rights or equal freedoms?

The government says it will 'permit' the marriage of same sex couples in churches and synagogues etc except for the established Church of England and for some reason the Church of Wales which was disestablished in 1920. Apparently those two bodies are against the idea so they are going to be forbidden to do it. Strange logic don't you think?

If the CofE  are against the idea why do they need to be forbidden? Why forbod the Church of Wales when it isn't even an established church? More to the point though, is this really an equality issue or is it about freedom? Chris Dillow suggests the latter:

Think of it this way. Over a very wide domain, the state already takes no interest in my choice of marriage partners. It is indifferent to their age (subject only to age of consent laws), ethnicity, psychological compatibility or appearance. Why, then, should it care about the contents of their trousers? Viewed in this frame, permitting gay marriage merely expands the range of characteristics of my marriage partners about which the state doesn't care. It's a small step to greater freedom. We could rename "equal marriage" as "free marriage."

I think he's right. Making this an issue of equal rights allows all the old nonsense about 'political correctness'  to be trotted out by the right wing dinosaurs of the right. The left by accepting this framing of the issue have lost the chance to re-attach themselves to the idea of freedom and so handed yet another stick to the right with which they can be beaten. Chris Dillow again:

So, why is the issue so often framed as one of equality rather than freedom? I suspect conservatives have an instinctive aversion to gay marriage, and prefer to rationalize this as a big issue of equality rather a small issue of freedom, because they feel more comfortable opposing equality than opposing freedom. Conversely, campaigners for legalizing gay marriage - being mostly on the left - feel more comfortable with talk of equality.

Much opposition to the idea of gay marriages is based on the false premise that 'allowing' it gives the state the right to enforce it. They are wrong - it isn't for the state to force, allow or even enable gay marriage in churches. It should simply be something in which they take no interest - which should of course also apply to the CofE itself. Disestablishment would itself be a step towards greater freedom.

Related articles

Gay marriage: a case of framing

CofE gay marriage 'to be illegal'

Wales News: Gay marriages: Church in Wales faces ban on performing gay ceremonies

Why are atheists so mean ?

Image via Wikipedia

For some reason - I suppose because they are having an impact - writers promoting a secular approach to society seem to be getting a hard time from the god-botherers lately. The idea that secularism is somehow a dangerous thing seems to me to be stretching the bounds of credibility mre than a little, but it hasn't stopped the Pope and various other clerics from sounding off.

Strangely however, some atheists are joining in, arguing that Dawkins et al are too strident. Now if you have read the Butterflies and Wheels blog, you will know that Ophelia Benson is unlikely to give such nonsense an easy ride and you would be right. In response to a particularly silly post by someone called Karla McLaren, described by the blog on which it appears as:

"...a hugely informative and clear-eyed assessment of the state of the atheist movement.”

she forthrightly responds "I don’t agree. I think it’s just the 14 millionth installment of 'new atheists are bad and mean ick.' "

Make sure you read all the comments too.

To be honest I'm not sure why we need  'new (or gnu) atheism'. Old style anti-clericalism and anti-theism does me just fine. I'm happy too to respond to those who argue that atheism is a religion with the riposte that in that case, not collecting stamps is a hobby. That doesn't mean that atheism is empty of values, just that those values are based on a different way of thinking about the world than that applied by theists. An atheist morality is not a house of cards, it is based on a realistic asessment of how people relate to each other in society.  

Related articles

• No gods, no masters...and NO MARTYRS (scienceblogs.com)

Where will you spend Eternity?

 

Smethwick, about 1970

...the hopeful, the tragic - and the gullible

Fat Man on a Keyboard.

Amidst the St Therese fridge magnets, there are always the hopeful, the tragic and the gullible.

One woman said that she became pregnant, after being told she could not, when she prayed to St Therese.

I'm sorry, but I think she must have been doing something else as well.

Praying couple lets their daughter die.

Wis. father on trial in girl's faith-healing death.

A comment on this story in the Chicago Tribune, that nails the mentality of people like this despicable couple:-

The weather reports were predicting serious storms and flooding. The man lived in a low-lying valley. His friend arrived by car and told him, "You have to get out of here, this place is going to flood." The man replied, "God will save me." The friend tried to reason with him, but eventually gave up and drove away. A while later water is lapping at the guy's porch. A rescue boat comes by and the rescue worker tells the man, "Hop in, I'll take you to safety." The man replies, "God will save me." The boat man tries to persuade him, but he has other people in the boat to worry about, so he leaves. Eventually the man is standing on top of his house, clinging to his chimney. The flood is raging all around him. A helicopter flies overhead and drops down a ladder. "Grab hold," the pilot yells, "I can still get you out of here." "God will save me," the man replies one last time. But just then his house gives way and he's swept away in the flood and dies. Of course, being a faithful man, he gets to go to Heaven and see God. God asks if he has any questions. Well, actually, yes," the man replies. "Why didn't you save me?" "I sent you a car, a boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?"

Abuse doesn't just mean physical violence.

 

Quote for the day

Since Galileo, a series of revolutions have overturned our conception of the universe and our role in it. During the Middle Ages, the universe was seen as a dark and forbidding place. Earth was like a small, flat stage, full of corruption and sin, enclosed by a mysterious celestial sphere where omens like comets would terrify kings and peasant alike. And if we were deficient in our praise of God and church we would face the wrath of the theater critics, the self-righteous members of the Inquisition and their hideous instruments of persuasion.

 

Parallel Worlds, Michio Kaku 2005

Penguin ed pp345-6

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